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I think that Yuri...in his attempt to flame Lisa Heller...is proving my
origianl point. Why is it that if someone does not understand the link
to your disad (or disregards it because the postion is silly...my
original post) that is thier fault. Sounds to me like Jeremy and Aaron
needed to be doing some better explaining in the round (at least to pick
up Lisa Hellers ballot).
However Yuri, inadvertantly, has proven one reason for mutual
preference. According to him the three judges in "Aaron Fuckin Klemz's"
tripple all voted for different reasons and expressed different likes and
dislikes about the round. The only way that you can adapt enough for
everyone in the back of the room is if they have similar likes and
dislikes. Otherwise, the debaters will be attempting to pick up x judge
at the expense of another. This, in my mind, is the best argument for mpj.
I think it is simple...if someone doesn't get the link or impact to your
disad it is not because the judge done fucked up it is because the
debaters done fucked up. Just because the explanation of the fine
clinton position was good enough for you, Yuri, it doesn't mean that it
was for everyone else. Now give Katie and Emily some credit. I think
that losing to them is much better than going out to someone else. Just
remember the entire MSU squad is young, buff, and they are all coming back.
I bet it is really tough losing in the tripple your senior year and i
hope that the debate gods are on my side when that time roles around for
me. But at some point we all have to take some amount of responsibility
for our losses. Just remember...the best of the best can pick up any
judge at any time no matter what.
Still At Arizona State
On Thu, 3 Apr 1997, yuri kostun wrote:
> ...you done fucked up.
> I was about to let this die as flaming a death as aaron fuckin
> klemz in triple octos, but Lisa just had to push the envelope.
> lisa heller sez:
> >As one of the judges of the now infamous triple octo-final round,
> I feel it
> >has become necessary for me to speak up.
> i say:
> steve donald didn't do an adequate job?
> lisa says:
> >Aaron Klemz is a great debater
> i say:
> damn! i NEVER said that.
> >Unlike Yuri, I like to judge. I really enjoy listening to good
> some of us should listen to debates instead of judging them.
> >also consider myself to be a fairly good judge.
> Really? In comparison to whom? Bennett Strange?(zing)
> > I think I can flow pretty
> >well, I've been involved in the activity for 8 years, and I take
> >seriously. At least some of the people at the Chessie
> >Nationals consider me to be a good judge too - they ranked me
> 13th in
> >comparison with 72 other judges.
> If you've found a home at NOVICE NATIONALS--by all means, enjoy
> your stay. The debates aren't quite as demanding.
> >It's true that it's UNFORTUNATE that a panel of three judges voted
> >Aaron and Jeremy had lost the triple octo-final round at Nationals
> 3-0. But
> >what makes this a "bad" decision, Yuri? You don't explain why, and
> > offer
> >no analysis or evidence.
> Whom shall I quote for evidence? Oh here's one:
> Kostun 1997--(full cite upon request).
> The 3-0 hardly looks impressive with judges voting for three
> different reasons. You(heller) say the disad was weak, but after
> the debate you said the link was taken out by fiat, whatever the
> hell that means. You didn't give them the disad. Heeper gave
> them(aaron,J) the disad but failed to flow the 1nr impact
> extension, hence case outwieghed. Does that justify your decision?
> NO! all three judges didn't vote alike so don't act like you're on
> solid ground. the quicksand will consume you!You didn't understand
> the LINK, and that is WHY? The 2nr is 4 minutes of Clinton and more
> than half is spent on the link. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?
> I Spent 45 painstaking minutes making my decision,
> >and I eventually came to the decision that Katy and Emily had won.
> Painstaking to who? Aaron and Klemz and Emily and Katy are the ones
> who had to wait. Sorry it took you that long to make the wrong
> >Bi-Part position was tentative at best, leaving SIU without a
> disad, and
> >leaving Michigan State with a clearly won case.
> Ho-hum, answered above.
> >I don't want to screw anyone over.
> Stop judging outrounds at nationals.
> >It's easy to blame a judge.
> >Lisa K. Heller
> >University of Richmond Debate
> some things are easier than others.
> george armstrong custer
> ex-debate coach, SIU
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